The Art of Unethical Up-selling

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44 Comments

1. 

   glblguy, 16. October 2007, 7:12

   I had a similar experience purchasing a high-end camera lens a few years back. If you use PriceGrabber.com, they have merchant ratings you can use. Just goes to show you the old rule stands true “If it looks to good to be true it probably is”.

2. 

   Chief Family Officer, 16. October 2007, 7:42

   I’m sorry about this experience - how awful! One tip for the future, when buying from smaller, unknown companies for the first time, I get a one-time number for my Visa card from my card issuer’s web site. That way, my card information is protected even if the sale goes sour or they don’t protect their customers’ info properly. I hope the cancellation goes smoothly!

3. 

   Lynnae @ Being Frugal, 16. October 2007, 8:10

   That’s terrible! I’m too chicken to buy online from companies I don’t know anything about. I like CFO’s idea of getting a one time credit card number. I’m going to see if my bank does this.

4. 

   Pinyo, 16. October 2007, 9:26

   @glblguy - I had a similar experience when I bought my first digital camera, and I should have listened to my instinct…shame on me for making the same mistake twice.

   @CFO - that’s a great idea. I didn’t know we can do that. It would have been much easier to get a temporary number than canceling my card, and reestablish all the automatic payments.

   @Lynnae - Online shopping can save quite a bit of money. However, if the price is not drastically different, I try to support local merchants.

5. 

   The Happy Rock, 16. October 2007, 9:35

   Those new york camera shops are infamous for similar tactics on ebay and other online sales sites. They have been doing it for years, and nothing has ever happened, except soured people from buying online.

   I have gotten great deals on camera, but you have to be picky about the seller. Places like froogle and pricegrabber are great at relaying other’s horror stories.

6. 

   kev, 16. October 2007, 10:41

   That’s awful. And it’s exactly why so many people out there are hesitant to purchase things online.

   There’s just too many unethical people and/or scam artists out there.

7. 

   Kyle @ Rather-Be-Shopping, 16. October 2007, 12:13

   Interesting post. I also have noticed some great deals on electronics from stores in NY area that seem to good to be true. Sounds like many of them are exactly that. Thanks for the heads up.

8. 

   Pinyo, 16. October 2007, 13:03

   @The Happy Rock and Kyle - funny thing is I needed their address to file a BBB complaint. When I ask the rep, he said, “We are in California. Why? Do you want to come over here?”

   I tried whois.sc and they hide their information. I also tried reverse phone look up, but can’t get the information without paying.

   @Kev - that’s the problem, and legit businesses are suffering because of these guys.

9. 

   Patrick, 16. October 2007, 16:09

   Wow! Great catch. Thanks for sharing too. Hopefully some other people will not make the same mistake of shopping with this seemingly dishonest company.

10. 

    Mrs. Micah, 16. October 2007, 16:37

    That’s awful! Smart move calling and asking if they have it in stock. I hope it all ends up ok with the refund and everything. What a horribly unethical situation.

    Speaking of that, actually, I’m planning to post tonight about markups within my own company which worry me a bit.

11. 

    Pinyo, 16. October 2007, 19:52

    @Patrick - I hope this post will help. I should have listened to my instinct and not order from them in the first place.

    @Mrs Micah - I already reported my credit card lost in case they don’t honor my cancellation. But from what I understand, it’s better for them to cancel my transaction and keep the product to bait the next unsuspecting customer victim.

12. 

    A. Nonymous, 16. October 2007, 21:24

    Sorry you had such a rotten experience.

    Thank you for posting the name and problem you had with a shady company.

    I would caution against not using small businesses, however. Large companies can pull some nasty “tricks”, too. Read through the comments on Amazon related to Neosure powdered formula for infants. You might also recall the infamous AOL customer retention program…

13. 

    W. Errico, 17. October 2007, 12:33

    The worst abusers of the up sell are those quick lube places. Their profit margin depends on it. Your best bet is to go to your local car dealer for your oil changes. Along with your oil change they’ll give you a print out of everything that is wrong with it or that you should take a look at. Plan on saying, “No, I just want my oil changed.” from the start and then take the list to any motor head that you know to find out what you should really get fixed. Why I recommend a dealer is they have a better incentive for taking car of your car. If they hose you, you won’t ever buy a car from them. If a quick lube hoses you, you just won’t get your oil change there.

14. 

    Money Blue Book, 17. October 2007, 13:27

    Pinyo,
    I used to do online shopping at any online retailer that offered the lowest prices available. But now I tend to favor more established sites for just this time of reason.

    Payment services like Paypal are great because it allows the payer to protect his/her credit card number.
    -Raymond

15. 

    Pinyo, 17. October 2007, 16:41

    @W. Errico - welcome to Moolanomy. I had that happened to me once when I went to a place I didn’t know for my inspection. They basically held me captive and replaced a lot of stuff. I ended up spending almost $1,000 that day. Needless to say, I was really pissed off.

    @Raymond - I am planning to stick to more established place too. The aggravation just isn’t worth it.

16. 

    Michelle, 20. October 2007, 15:05

    I don’t agree that an upsell with a limited-time coupon is unethical, but the rest of the hoo-haa you got is a bummer. Best luck finding a better merchant with a comparable price!

    -Michelle

17. 

    Pinyo, 23. October 2007, 18:20

    @Michelle - welcome to Moolanomy. That in itself may not be unethical (although it does create the urgency and pressure). However, it’s definitely unethical when combined with: (1) using low priced item to attract customer, (2) using the coupon to push overpriced items, (3) reneging after the bait failed.

    Thanks for the well wishes, we got our camcorder yesterday from Amazon.

18. 

    Don Wiss, 24. October 2007, 18:01

    Hi Pinyo. They are not in California. But another of the Brooklyn places. I’d like an address, so I can go get a picture and add to my site. Not having tried to make a purchase I can’t post at ResellerRatings. But maybe you can edit your post there asking anyone with an address to provide it to you, so you can file with the BBB. And then please provide it to me. Thanks, Don.

19. 

    Don Wiss, 24. October 2007, 18:14

    Hi again. I found the address. I had forgotten to check the NY entity database. In it I found:

    Current Entity Name: 86TH STREET PHOTO, INC.
    Initial DOS Filing Date: JULY 02, 2007

    86TH STREET PHOTO, INC.
    2845 86TH STREET
    BROOKLYN, NEW YORK, 11223

    That is an outfit that I already picture. I will add them to my caption.

20. 

    Pinyo, 24. October 2007, 18:15

    @Don - welcome to Moolanomy. I am not sure if I can get their address either. It seems to be a well-guarded secret, and we must wonder why any legitimate business would hide their address.

    There was a suggestion from the forums to contact BBB via phone or email and see if they will take the complaint without address.

21. 

    Pinyo, 24. October 2007, 18:20

    @Don - great! I am filing my complaint

22. 

    coenak, 26. October 2007, 21:08

    The EXACT story happened to me yesterday, but on a different site: thedigitalnerds.com

    I ordered what seemed to be a great buy on a camera. Sent me a e-mail, I had to call to confirm. Okay, called and the guy was trying to sell me another memory card and battery and was doing the same coupon deal with the great price. I said no on everything. Today they e-mail me and say it is out of stock and 6-8 weeks. I checked the site, it says my camera is still in stock. I will call on Sunday and ask if it is in stock, when they say it is, I will confront them and about it or something. I doubt anything will happen.

    Thanks for the story, at least I know someone else had the same experience.

23. 

    Pinyo, 26. October 2007, 21:22

    @Coenak - welcome to Moolanomy. I am sorry to hear you are having a problem as well. Apparently, this problem is quite widespread.

24. 

    Mike, 29. October 2007, 13:29

    I was researching 86th Street, because I’m purchasing a Pansonic DMC-TZ3A camera, and they had by far the best price, at least $70 less than the competitors.

    I called them and waited on hold for about 10 minutes, but they said they had the item in stock and quoted me the same price and shipping as the online price. I placed the order using my AMEX card. They tried the standard pitch about the warranties and extras, but I politely declined and they didn’t push the matter. Definitly not a hard sell.

    Now I just sit back and wait for the camera to show up (7-12 buisness days).

    I’m fairly comfortable about not getting the shaft for 2 reasons:

    1) By placing the order over the phone, I never agreed/acknowledged any of their sales or return policies as you would do over the internet. The sales rep never mentioned them over the phone.

    2) American Express makes it really easy to open a dispute against an merchant, and they will refund the money to your account while the dispute is open. I always carry an Amex card and use it whenever I’m unsure of the merchant.

    I’ll report back when I have anything new.

25. 

    Pinyo, 29. October 2007, 18:43

    Mike, welcome to Moolanomy. I hope it works out for you.

    I agree that they were never rude (they were quite polite), nor did they use any hard sell tactics. Nonetheless, they were deceiving and used dishonest tactics to cheat innocent consumers out of their hard earned money.

26. 

    charlie, 31. October 2007, 12:05

    sure wish i found this post earlier same story same store. spread the word.

27. 

    Pinyo, 1. November 2007, 5:59

    @Charlie - Sorry to hear that. I hope you can resolve the issue, and in the end, get what you wanted. Too bad there are people like this to make us miserable.

28. 

    Chris @ CD Interest Rates, 2. November 2007, 7:40

    I tend to use established stores with nearby phyiscal locations (CircuitCity, Best Buy, etc.) for big electronic purchases. They have the staying power and I know warranties and such will be honored.

    For other things, like a set of bunk beds, I used EBay and just read through pages and pages of ratings.

    I had a great experience with a small business when I needed somethings for my soccer team. The key was they were responsive, non-pushy, and service, not sells was their push.

29. 

    ana, 2. November 2007, 22:19

    Thank you so much for sharing your story!

    I was surfing through plenty of sites, trying to find the best price for a Canon Powershot S5. Then I came across this unknown site selling it for about $100 less than the average. It was so tempting. I was about to buy it. But fortunately I followed my instincts and researched a little

30. 

    Pinyo, 3. November 2007, 12:38

    @Chris - Welcome to Moolanomy. That’s what I intend to do now, but it’s a shame for other legitimate small businesses.

    I didn’t know buying bulky stuff like bunk beds on eBay actually works well. I haven’t been there for a while because you can really get hooked to the “winning” and ended up buying junks.

    Regarding local businesses, I do support them even if they are a bit more expensive. They are what make our neighborhoods a neighborhood.

    @Ana - You’re welcome and welcome to Moolanomy. After that experience, I’d definitely recommend you stay away from them.

    Good move on your part!

31. 

    Karen, 4. November 2007, 10:26

    I’m glad I took the time to look for information about this company. I was enticed by the $150 digicam they were selling (which Newegg.com, my preferred nerdjunk store, had for a depressing $230). I was wondering if it fell off the back of a truck *cough* or something. I did notice the bizarrely overpriced SD cards ($150 for a 1GB card? Are you on crack?) but I figured I’d just get one elsewhere. It was suspicious that they had a load of positive reviews, but only on a single SUPAR DEALZ ZOMG type of site, which is why I was looking for another review. Thanks for saving me a waste of time and cell minutes.

    (That said, I have to say I’ve had good experiences with small companies… I think they’re trustworthy as long as you find them through a trustworthy source that allows non-site-linked reviews. last christmas I found a tiny used bookstore with froogle and got 8 normally kind of expensive books shipped to me for $25 total. It was awesome.)

32. 

    Pinyo, 4. November 2007, 11:05

    @Karen - welcome to Moolanomy. I am glad I can help, and thank you for your input on small businesses.

    You may want to do a search on Deal Scans. I did a couple searches on there and thought it was quite good.

33. 

    Zee, 8. November 2007, 1:56

    Similar experience was mine for this web site. They tried to sell me different accessories and service plan; when I refused, I got the email that the product is back ordered. I called them and they coolly canceled the order.

    I have complained against 86th Street photo & Video at BBB web site…. don’t know if it will make any difference.

34. 

    Pinyo, 8. November 2007, 7:24

    @Zee - welcome to Moolanomy. Sorry to hear about the problem you had with them.

    I also filed my complaint with BBB. I think that’s the best we can do — unfortunately.

35. 

    Buzz, 19. November 2007, 12:02

    I wish I had found this sooner. I bought a camera and had the exact same thing happen.

36. 

    Sam, 26. November 2007, 9:40

    The same thing happen to me exact same story as the first one, i called tried to sell me on a warranty, refused, a day later an e-mail stating my order is on back order for 4-5 weeks, after they already have all my CC info. something must be done against such a dis-honest people

    any recommendations

    DO NOT BUY FROM THIS WEB SITE
    DO NOT BUY FROM THIS WEB SITE

37. 

    Dave, 30. December 2007, 16:24

    They are still in business and still doing the same thing. My wife and I just got finished canceling our credit card after falling for their scam (and before we saw all the warnings and posts about this place).

    How did this happen to us… Basically, they showed up on a price comparison web site, with the absolute lowest price and a “supposed” high rating. I now believe that they must run their own rating site. From that point on, it’s the same story as everyone else seems to report. We received an email to call them to confirm the order. We called “ext. 203 for Steve” and were told that we needed to buy batteries.

    But, this was for a Canon S5 IS, which uses “AA” batteries and includes them in the box! When we told him that he said “No, it requires additional, special, recharge batteries”, which he wanted to sell us - We declined. He then said we would need a memory card that we should buy. We declined that as well. He then told us that we would need an extended warranty. We declined that as well. He then said the camera was on backorder and would not ship for at least 2-3 weeks. We asked why, as their web site says “usually ships in 1-2 days” and he paused for a second and then said we could try to re-order it after New Years.

    We then asked to cancel the order. After that, we also canceled our credit card as this business seems to be in the business of getting personal information and credit card info without ever intending to sell anything unless you pay a 200-500% markup on non-necessary accessories, even to the point that they are not truthful about such (e.g., needing “special” batteries, when only AA batteries are required), etc.

    Please avoid this place and do some research before buying online. We certainly learned our lesson.

38. 

    Frederick J. Adam, 28. February 2008, 10:29

    They are still at it. Bought a camera a month ago and got the same ’spiel’, on back order, 3-4 weeks wait. Wrote again yesterday and got this today:

    Dear Valued Customer,

    We regret to inform you that the products you have ordered with our company are sold out temporarily.

    However, these products shall be available again within about 6-8 weeks from the date of this email.

    We would like to notify you that we still have not charged your credit card as of yet. Once we have the products ordered available again, we will send you another email notification and only then, you will be billed 24 hours prior to products shipment.

    If you would like to be on the backorder list for this product(s), just reply to this e-mail with the phrase “Please backorder order# (________) in the subject.

    If you would like to cancel the order just reply with the phrase “Please cancel order# (__________) and we will take care of the rest and destroy current information about your order.

    Thank you for your business!

    Sincerely,

    86th St. Photo and Video

39. 

    M Masqua, 20. March 2008, 6:49

    http://www.86photovideo.com/ Stay away!!

    I also think there’re 3 or 4 merchants operated from the same outfit with different phone numbers.

    I saw a GPS on their web page (www.86photovideo.com)…a Gamin Nuvi 660 selling for $301.00 I called to order here how it went!

    Me) Hi, I see on your web page a Garmin Nuvi 660 selling for $314.00 I would like to buy it

    86photo) Yes we do… you’ll need a memory card which are on sale at the moment.

    Me) I don’t need it, I already have one from another Garmin GPS…

    86photo) But is the same Model 660? <— (right now the guy is BSing me, what difference does it make a MC is a MC! )

    Me) Yes It’s the same GPS .

    86photo) Do you want the English version or the Chinese one (Now I’m laughing I know they wont sell it for the price they advertise)

    Me) Finally after few complaining words …I said Screw you… and hang up!]

    http://www.86photovideo.com/pr.....arch=18310

40. 

    Frank, 17. April 2008, 13:32

    I had the same problem with 86th street photo and also Broadway Photo.
    Broadway Photo = 86th Street photo.
    It’s the same call center handling both company…..
    Tried to buy a Panasomic Lumix camera.

    Got an email to verify my order.
    The guy representing Broadway Photo first tried to sell me a new battery and charger because the one that comes with it last only 20 minutes and charges for 8 hours!

    Then, he said the camera is an import from Japan and asked me if I speak japanese! what a rip-off.

    There was no mention of this on their website, and the person I talked to at first completely lied to me.

    Also if you don’t buy anything extra, they will put your order on back order….guaranteed.

    Already made a complaint to FTC and Consumer report and am also going to complain about everyprice.com who promotes this activity

41. 

    Make Friends, Earn Money, 18. May 2008, 3:43

    This is wholly inapprorpaite behaviour by the merchant and yet it’s surprising how often it can happen. I think your idea of cancelling your credit card was extremely prudent and I’d have done the same, who knows where you details would have ended up otherwise.

42. 

    T. Kindel, 6. June 2008, 9:59

    I had a similar experience with 86Photo this week (May 2 2008). As soon as I did not buy the additional items they wanted me to add to my order, I received an e-mail that the item I did order was on backorder. I won’t ever buy from 86Photo or use the LowPriceDigital website where 85Photo’s price was advertised.

43. 

    D. Cantrell, 8. June 2008, 17:54

    Glad to know I am not alone. Got the camera and the up-sell, “Because you are a first time customer.” The $150 lens filters do not fit on the camera. (I know — 150!! — I am a sucker, but “they are regularly $300, and they are on special today.”) The “free” camera case (because I “sound like such a nice guy” after buying the lens filters) is too small for the camera. Good thing it was “free.” The links on the website to track my order do not work, and someone else’s name and phone number came up when I log on to my account with them. When I finally got back through to them, they were unconcerned with this name error and told me to call back for customer service in three days. Needless to say, I have closed out my charge card. I did get the camera promptly. ($150 filters at least buy quick service.) In the end, I did get the $350 dollar camera for $230, but only after falling for the nearly $200 in extra junk — all at “deep discounts” just for me. I am usually not this stupid. In the end, my discounted $350 camera cost well over $500 with the filters and case I cannot use. Next time I’ll stick with someone I know.

44. 

    Pinyo, 9. June 2008, 6:45

    D. Cantrell - Sorry about your experience. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of immoral electronic stores out there. Before 86th photo, I went through a very similar experience as yours when I bought my first digital camera with lens/filters that are too small, extended-life battery that doesn’t work as well as the original, and a camera bag that’s too small.

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